Dateology

What do guys really mean when they say they don't want family and kids?

Kerry from San Diego sent me an email with an important question. With her permission, I'm posting it here.

Dear DG,

I really enjoy reading your blog. I'm sure you get a lot of questions and but was hoping you'll answer mine. I'm 31 years old--for the past 5 months I've been dating a guy who is just turning 30. He's successful, professional, and just a nice guy. Everything feels perfect between us: we have amazing chemistry, we talk about everything, he is a total gentleman, and already is making plans for us for the new year. There's just one thing I'm not completely sure about--whenever I bring up family or kids (which I would like to have) he says he'd like them some day but not now.  He is very close with his family so I can't imagine this being a problem, but it's definitely not a topic he likes to talk about right now. I don't want to end the relationship just because he's not ready to have kids, but I also don't want to waste my time on a guy who is not sure he wants the same thing as me.

Thank you,

Kerry

Well, Kerry--thanks for the question and for allowing me share it on Dateology.

Here's the thing. When we break down your question, there are basically two things you can do. One, you can trust how you feel and everything that's great between you two and keep going hoping that one day, the right time will come for your boyfriend to settle down--that taxi light will turn on--and he'll take one look at you and say "yes! this is what I want!"  Or, two, you can decide here and now that family and kids are your top priority at this point in time and that you want to be with someone who's sure about wanting them too.

Neither of these options guarantee success and, in case it hasn't been clear--you, my dear, despite best efforts, are already involved.  I really can't tell you what to do but, whatever decision you make, I think there are a few things you might want to keep in mind:

1. It needs to be a decision that allows you to focus on the positive aspects of the relationship. If you choose to stay, you must be able to completely forget the fact he's not ready for family yet (or ever) and focus only on the great chemistry and connection between you two. If you don't--if you keep worrying and nagging about the family and kids thing every week--you'll drive him away.  Similarly, if you leave, you need to be 100% certain that it's the right thing and be completely positive that you'll meet someone else with whom you'll have just as "perfect" of a relationship. Otherwise, you'll spend the next five years wondering if you've made a mistake and that, as we both know, is a sure road to your personal hell.

2. You are 31. You are still young. You don't have to make a decision today, right now. The guy-- he's barely 30. If I haven't been clear--most American guys don't even bat the family eyelash until they're 35. Think of it as a sleeping gene. Or an ink cartridge you need to release from its vacuum seal before you can insert it in the tray. Until something hits him on the head, your great guys is simply not going to all of a sudden change. So most chances are, he can't even hear what you're saying and the more you push, the more you'll be hitting against a concrete wall and that's never very appealing. So take a deep breath and figure it's going to be 2-4 years in the wait. Can you do that?

3. There are no guarantees. Even if he says now that he wants kids some day, you first have to weather those few relationship storms and agree that you want to have kids with each other, right?  Sure, some couples know instantaneously they're meant for one another--but most couples need a bit more time before making such life defining decisions.

Keeping all this in mind, my advice is that you take a deep breath and wait a bit.  Focus on having a great time, get to know one another, explore all that's great, and ignore the long term discussion for now. This may be the guy for all you know--so let's first see how the relationship goes.

And, when you guys have had a chance to get to know one another a bit better and have developed trust and mutual respect, you could then ask him for advice on just how to deal with his sense of time when it comes to the question of family and kids.

Hope this helps, Kerry. Do let us know.

Yours truly,

Datingirl

Dan- Take 2

So Dan and I met for lunch today. It's a beautiful Indian summer day in the city and there's no better spot than the Ferry building for some good conversation and fresh food. We sit down and catch up. Words flow, stories from the war zone which is work make us laugh--it's all very, well--nice. I keep the energy up by making fun of things--the melting chocolate, the birds hovering near by. Mostly I make fun of myself and my little idiosyncrasies. Dan is charmed by my not-so-charming side. The problem is, that even I get tired of entertaining myself and Dan is so even keel. I try to find the humor in things he says but there's none really. He's just a solid nice guy.

We finish our lunch, split the check, and walk to the parking lot. He escorts me to my car where we say goodbye. Cordially. "I'll call you next week," he says. "Okay," says I. And with that we part--I get into my car, put the key in the ignition and turn on the radio. For a second, I feel as if I had just arrived--no time has passed by. Is that the same song?

I don't know about you but I really like it when people I spend time with leave an impression. When I feel those minutes or hours you spent together changed you in some small way--even if it's just to say that you notice time has passed; that you were doing something else; that you have new thoughts in your head. Otherwise, I believe, time is just that--or worse--it's an empty space that sort of collapses upon itself once you pick up again.

Yours truly,

Daringirl

The written off are writing away

On Saturday I got a letter from a guy I dated briefly some 18 months ago. Of the people I dated in the past two years--this, was the last guy I thought I'd hear from again.

The letter came in a simple white letter-size envelope. My address and his neatly printed on it. The stamp affixed carefully exactly at the corner--two millimeters from the edge. I tear the side of the envelope and fish for the letter. It's a one pager. Printed and then signed by hand. He wants me to know he was thinking of me. He saw on Linkedin that I had changed jobs and wanted to congratulate me. He would have congratulated me earlier but he wanted to make sure I was first settled in my new position so he waited. And how am I doing, he wants to know. He understands I thought it was best we didn't stay in touch, definitely not after those few times he tried, and he understands I think that he had crossed many lines, but maybe he could explain--even though I said there's no need and that all was forgiven--just once more, what was going on in his life back then. Maybe then we could talk again? It's not that he expects to hear back, but he would certainly like to, if I desire, stay in touch somehow. If we could be friends, and he could come to dinner again, and explain.

I fold the letter and put it back in the envelope. Of all the people who could do some explaining--he's the one who ends up writing.  The one guy who turned out to be complete nut case--who, when I returned from a 2 week business trip (during which I would set an alarm clock so that I could call him exactly at 9pm his time, after his kids went to sleep), told me that he felt abandoned and rejected while I was away and that his therapist (whom he saw twice a week) suggested we take time apart. And that was, mind you, after we had been dating for maybe 6 weeks. Max.

I love the written word. I love good letters and men who are able to reflect. I love men who say "I'm a mess. I need to change." Or when they say "will you help?" I love them even more when they are able to say "I made a mistake." I still keep love notes and scribbles from each and every ex because it helps me remember that they were good guys on a journey like me. 

And so I'm take this letter as a symbol--a sign--that life's other mysteries are about to be solved. And if they're to be solved with a written word--let it be it. I'm ready. Bring it on.

Yours truly,

Datingirl

Why eHarmony is a good thing

It has been four months that I've been on eHarmony and today--I am taking stock.

Ten reasons why eHarmony was a really good thing:

1. It helped me get The Ex blanket off of me and step outside. Just a few days ago at a party, a mutual friend asked me about him. "Have you seen E? Our friend asked. E who? Oh...The Ex. Nope. Haven't. Quickly checking inside--no feelings whatsoever. Nice.
2. It showed me just how many great guys are also looking. Right for me or not, it's not such a dry desert after all.  It gave me a perspective and reassured me that there are options. Lots of options. And all each of us needs--is just one.
3. The structured communication process gave me a way to have more meaningful first dates in which I could communicate with a guy without him turning into a puddle (because a. "you're so intimidating" or b. "you're just too beautiful").
4. It definitely led to a few good belly laughs (remember the dolphin?!?) and to precious moments of sharing profiles on the phone with my brother and his wife or with a close friend.
5. It helped me understand more about the dating-mankind. From your obsession with sports, to how you need to organize yourselves in a few categories for safety, to choosing terrible pictures. Men, I've learned, are often their own worse enemies when it comes to putting themselves forward.
6. Being committed to doing things seriously--to filling out the profile, looking at each match carefully, communicating with care--helped me feel that I was actively participating in finding the right guy for me. No more sitting at a cafe with my friends and passing complaints. I took action. That I didn't find the right guy is true--but I gained a sense of control over my dating life and regained my optimism that everything will work out just right again.
7. I can now tell my parents I've done my part.
8. I can now tell my brother I've done my part.
9. I can now tell myself--I've done my part.
10. And- rolling in guys' words, flipping through the pictures, reading between the lines, inspired me to think and write again and to have fun.

And now that it has been four months (FOUR months?!?), I'm feeling good:  I'm on my feet, head screwed on just right, my step is light.  It has been a great experience...but, as with many such explorations, there comes a time to move on. And so with that--on my other monitor, I'm hitting the "Close" button once more--this time, for my eHarmony account.

Sometimes we just need a little support. This was mine. If you're seriously looking for that someone-- do whatever you need to do. Break your own "I would never" rules. Get online, go out to events, tell your friends you're ready. I didn't for the longest time and it didn't serve me well (although it did give me the illusion of an ego intact).

No matter what, never lose your faith that things will work. Your good energy, your optimism, your lack of attachment to results, and your openness to trying, are likely to bring you much closer, much sooner, to the right one for you. And- think of all the journey stories you'll be able to share...

Yours truly,

Datingirl

NonAdsense

Dear Dateologers--hang with me as I try to figure out why Google AdSense is taking over the footer of Dateology posts...if anyone has an idea--do share!

DG

Lessons from eHarmony for guys: #3- Get some good pictures, for crying out loud!

Seriously. Do you really think that picture of you in front of your bathroom mirror, wearing a wife beaters--or worse--a suit (!!!)--is going to do it for us? How about that picture with the dolphin? (Still not over that one.) Or you as an ant in the snow? C'mon.

Guys, we just want to see you. We want to look at your face, pretend we're not looking at your body, and be able to create a story about who you are. If we can't (and you don't have a mind-blowing profile to balance, which, you rarely do I regret to say) it's not likely you'll stay around for long. And that's too bad because you may be the nicest guy ever. You just chose sucky pictures.
Here's how you can help us:

1. Give us a close-up so we can see your face. We really like good eyes. 'Eyes are the window to the soul', etc. I don't know what you've heard women say--but in the end, we care. Make it natural--not posed in some sterile studio--so we can get a feel for your true features and recognize you when we finally meet you.
2. An upper body (or full body if you must) so we can get a sense for your proportions. And I don't mean this in the guy way...ahem. What I mean is that women really like to feel comfortable around a guy's body. Most of us don't like to feel like we tower over you or can squeeze you to death if we ever end up in bed together. It's a primal thing, let us have it, ok?
3. And speaking of proportions--how about perspective? Let us see you in an environment so we can tell more about your frame and body language. Bathroom door and sink do not count. Try a recent picture of you at a house party or standing next to one of those silly globes at Crissy Field.
4. Not sure you're the most attractive lad in the eHarmony bubble? No problem. Here's a secret I just learned: one sure way to combat this minor shortcoming is to share a picture--a happy picture--with a good looking (yet normal!) woman friend. Michael from San Francisco did that and boy did it make an impression. She looked smart, professional, and kind. From "eh, he's ok" I heard myself go to "awww...he's a nice guy." Just like that. There's something about a guy who is liked by self assured, professional, good looking women that gives you a look-pass. Oh yeah--please label picture with: "me with my friend (insert name or location)." That'll suffice. Good going, Michael!
5. One picture is not enough. We can't really tell much from a single picture. And by the way--so far, most of those sucked. We're women. We need to think about things. To see you in different lights. Give us at least 3-5 (but please, no need for 15).
6. Oh yeah--baseball caps, sunglasses, megaphones, turkey hats, ski masks are all ok...I suppose--just not on every picture. If you must do the little costume show--go for it. But please balance with ones where we can actually see you.

Ladies, anything else I may have left out?

Gentlemen--we thank you in advance...

Yours truly,

Datingirl

Random browsing: look what the cat dragged in

In one of my random internet surfing zone-outs, I stumble upon an ultra colorful, ultra busy blog promising dating advice from a single dating expert ("because who knows better than a guy who's still dating") named Evan Mark Katz. I'm a bit suspicious of the blog which looks more like the desk of an ad agency reject-- but with what turns out to be an extensive website, a few TV spots, and some 40 comments per post, I stay on.

Thirty seconds into the current post and I'm captivated. I feel I'm being spoken to by higher power (Evan Marc Katz apparently is his name).

Responding to a reader who's wondering why she keeps dreaming about her once two-timer date when there is a perfectly nice guy right there (but, who's apparently challenged in bed), Katz provides an interesting window into the guy's mind.

"The truth is," writes Katz, "that attraction and devotion are two things that CAN go together but don’t INHERENTLY go together. In fact, it would probably be more accurate to state that attraction and devotion are at opposite poles."

Katz goes on to write that men can change...it's just a matter of how you (women) let them know what you need them to do differently.  (And this is where, this time, you can add "in bed.") You can read more here...and don't be alarmed--apparently this kindergarten looking boy is over 30.

Bottom line, from the few strong relationships I've been in, and from the many relationships I've seen-- when the time is right, both men and women find their ways to a certain equilibrium. For men, it's often when work (and a mortgage) are finally in place and the "ready now" taxi cab light goes on...for women it might be an age, a biological clock, or simply finding someone who has most of what they look for. Until that point, it seems, men will be men and--and there's simply very little we can do about it other than wait. And play mice.

Yours truly,

Datringirl

eHarmony date #4- Dan

Dan and I have been communicating the extra-slow path for a couple of months now. He asks questions, I take a few days to reply, he takes two weeks to write back. Since I was briefly dating a few weeks back (one of those frenzied guys--swept me up and plopped me right back down), I didn't care. I thought I'd be closing the whole eHamrony thing anyway as I was flying way up in the air.

Back to ground though, and as soon as I untangled my foot from earth's roots, I resumed communication. Couple more weeks and we finally got to Open Communication. A whole 2000 characters or so of open words. I figure it's time to share my picture with him.
"I was hoping you won't," he writes. "I really liked what you had to say."
I'm wondering if he's for real or if he too has seen the Tao of Steve.
I un-share.
Dan writes long emails. If you've been following, I'm sure you know by now I have a soft spot for good emails--they're food for my soul...but his are just, well...long.

We finally agree to meet. A coffee date (screening, really). He proposes Greens at Fort Mason. It's a great choice for a sunny day. I arrive and he's already there, he spots me immediately and smiles--shifting his sunglasses above his closely shaved head. He's tall, not bad looking, relaxed.

We get our coffee (soy for him) and walk toward the beach.

Later that night I get on the phone and describe the date to my brother and his wife.
The guy was super nice, I say. Insisted on paying for the coffee, opened the door, made sure I wasn't too cold...
My brother says it's a good start.
He's professional, I say, we talked about work...he cares about the environment...does non-profit work...he volunteers at a children shelter...heads a number of organizations...nice guy...
Impressive, my brother says.
Yeah...I guess, he's really nice.
And?
Nothing, I say. He's nice.
Nice? says my sister-in-law. Nice?!?
What? Say I. He's a nice guy...
Can you hear yourself? she yells at me.
What?
If you say nice one more time I'm going to hang up on you. It's only 7pm and you're putting me to sleep. Where's the spunk? Where's the spice? You can't be with someone who's just nice.

So there you have it. Apparently, I may have pushed the dial just a bit too far and ended up with a bit of a zombie--a vanilla stick if you will--in my sister-in-law's taste at least.

Alas. Nothing will be determined on a first coffee date. It never should. There will be a real dinner and plenty of conversation to give him a chance to bring on some real spice and zest. The guy's from New York...he has to have some edge.

Yours truly,

Datingirl

An escape to New York

Katy is getting ready to leave for New York tonight.
"Why are you going?" I ask her. "There are a lot of cool things happening in San Francisco this weekend. Love Fest, StrictlyBlueGrass, etc.
"I'm going to visit my cousin," she says and looks down."They invited me to spend the weekend with them."
"Weren't you just there?" I ask.
"I just need to get out of town." She says. "Change of scenery."
I know she's referring to the whole ordeal with John.
"You really let this guy get to you." I'm half accusing, half perplexed.
She doesn't say anything.
"Katy," I try to appeal to her reason; to remind her of the things I know she knows. "He is obviously unable to have a relationship, can't handle a conversation, cannot apologize, wants you one day won't talk to you the next, has no respect for you, calls you names...what are you holding on to?"
Silence.
When Katy gets silent I know there's no use. I have to let her be. It infuriates me that she won't talk to me. I hate not being able to help her.
Finally, she looks up at me. "You don't understand!" She almost yells.
"What?!?" I say, jarred.
"I get him!" Katy says and looks at me with a piercing glare. " I get him. I understand why he is the way he is. It's familiar. I used to be this way. Moody and obsessed and unsure what to do with my feelings, thinking everyone's judging me, reading between the lines what never existed in the first place,  assigning to others what I feel, being unable to express what I truly want--feeling like no matter what I say it comes out wrong. I used to be so angry but it was only because I didn't know how to do things differently.   I once wished upon my cousin that he died instead of our uncle--and I was ten!"

"Katy," I lean in and look straight into her beautiful blue eyes. "I understand. And at the same time--that's exactly it. You were ten! He's not. You've come a really long way since you were that little lost girl."

"And teenager." She looks up and smiles. "And a 20 something adult."
"Ok, when did it stop?" I ask her and we both laugh.

My close girlfriends seem to have some things in common: they are very accomplished, good looking women who make tough decisions in their professional lives driven by logic and fact. And yet, in their personal lives, these women seem to ignore the facts and look at people (guys) not for what they see on the outside but more so for the person behind the public persona.  We understand what it's like to be lost, and we look for the potential instead of the reality.

And then there's the cultural thing. Both Katy and I lived abroad as kids. We often talk about how Americans are more emotionally suppressed than some other cultures. In France, for example, being angry or sad is expected. The word Emotional is a positive word--it describes an ability to feel and sense and demonstrates that you have passion. In the States however, people are often expected to control their feelings--to be polite, diplomatic, to not expose their feelings in public unless they're a victim to some terrible circumstances or are on a talk show. Instead of being rewarded for their ability to feel and express (and then let go), people here are rewarded for their ability to control and suppress their emotions.

When a person yells, he's considered hot-tempered. When a person is sad, he is prescribed medicine. A friend, just recently, was told she was in the manic stage of a bi-polar disorder because she was exhilarated for a few days after landing a new job. What if we all start to believe that there's something wrong with us? How will that impact our behavior which, in other places in the world, would have been completely normal?

"Look, I know there was no reason for him to do what he did..." says Katy, "but if he were able to talk about it--maybe we would have gotten past it."
"Until the next time?" I ask her.
"Maybe so." Says she. "But it's just part of growing up, I guess. working through things when you think you met someone special."

I look at her and see a potential in real form. Rose colored glasses riding on the ridge of her nose. An infinite ability to see good and to feel hope. An untiring believer, she is the ultimate loving forgiver.

"Ok Katy," I say and extend my hand to her. "Let's go."
And with that we head out to SFO.

Yours truly,

Datingirl

Mystery solved; Movie title found...the geek's guide to the women's galaxy

 In my reply post to Brooke I mention a quote from a movie--name I couldn't recall. Well. Mystery solved in the most mysterious ways and in the most  unlikely fitting place--a tech website covering startup companies of all things.

The movie (drum roll please) is Tao of Steve. A across-country, cross-continents dating guide for guys. It's the best hidden secret of all geeks around. It's their bible. Their How-To everything you wanted to know about girls and life.

Late at night, as they code or wait for coders to finish their job--as they plan to take over the world (Muahaha)--they sit and watch this movie over and over and over again. They can quote any line, they have categorized the film's scenes according to lessons--and they will use secret codes to reference these lessons whenever one of their friends is in trouble (aka-likes a girl). 

Just ask any techie about it, and you'll see them look up and smile as they blush--memories of sweet comfort and joy emanate from their face. 

Ladies, if you haven't seen this movie yet--highly educational view into the inner-workings of guys' minds. Ignorance has been bliss. Now go watch it.  Clip (rule 2) here.

Yours truly,

Datingirl